Mauricio Macri’s Cabinet Chief Horacio Rodríguez Larreta talks to the Herald on Friday.
By Sebastián Lacunza & Ximena Schinca
Herald Staff
Herald Staff
Rodríguez Larreta vows to have subway, education and security as main priorities if elected
Mauricio Macri’s Cabinet Chief Horacio Rodríguez Larreta, one of the PRO mayoral Buenos Aires City candidates, welcomed the Herald in the City government headquarters located in the neighbourhood of Barracas. During the campaign the presence of PRO activists in all of the City’s neighbourhoods has been very visible. In addition to activists, are public resources used for those booths, as opposition politicians have denounced?
First of all, the vast majority of what you can see on the streets takes place on Saturday mornings, when most people are not at work. Second, there is no kind of state authorization for the campaign, and that is the same as what you see in Buenos Aires City. You see the same from (ECO candidate Martín) Lousteau, and (Kirchnerite candidate Mariano) Recalde. It’s the traditional way that campaigning is conducted in the City.
What role will Gabriela Michetti have within the PRO if she loses the primary? Would you rule out her accepting the vice-presidency?
I think that she has already taken a decision about where she wants to run, but I imagine that she will continue to help Mauricio with the national elections. It’s more of a question for her than for me. I have no doubt that she will continue to participate with an important role.
There are issues related to public services. For example, the tow trucks that pay very little and pick up many cars in a 20-year concession. Trash collection is expensive compared to Rosario and Córdoba and is in the hands of contractors.
That’s what somebody in the opposition says (former City legislator Martín Hourest), but there is nothing that shows that trash in Buenos Aires City is more expensive.
In any case, in the big budget lines such as tow trucks, trash, subways, you have used in these eight years a system with contractors and questionable service, within the framework of Argentine standards.
We have managed the subways for two years, not eight.
Because you avoided managing them for two more years because you resisted the transfer.
No. Because we wanted the Constitution to be respected. It says that any responsibility that is transferred to sub-national government must be accompanied with the corresponding budget. But there came a moment in which the subway crisis was such with days of strikes, that we took it on and of course have filed all of the paperwork from that day onwards so that we are paid what we are owed. We haven’t given up on our demand. And even so, today we are buying carriages so that the subway works better. Obviously, you can’t buy the carriages from a dealership, you have to have them built and that takes a long time. The stations are cleaner and have clearer signage. Concerning garbage and the contractors, there was an international call for tenders and anybody could submit proposals. We are changing the garbage collection system, forty years on.
How would you grade the subway service?
Giving it a grade is difficult. Regarding the subway, it will have a frequency of less than three minutes, which is the international standards. And all of the new carriages that are necessary to meet that objective will be air conditioned.
May we point out that the promise made by Mauricio Macri in 2007 of building 11 additional kilometres of subway per year with the City’s own resources ha s not been met?
Mauricio said that we would do that assuming we had access to credit, which the national government did not allow. And today when we can have access to credit it is very expensive because of the country risk. We are now buying the carriages necessary to carry out this idea. Today we have 1.2 million passengers on the subway. During rush hour people travel uncomfortably, crammed together. And I commit to a frequency of less than three minutes. Today there are frequencies of four, five minutes but also great variability — sometimes it runs to eight minutes. I am convinced that we can get to less than three minutes.
Do you plan on extending the subway’s hours of operation to 2am or around the clock, as happens in many capitals such as New York and Madrid?
How much do tickets cost in those cities? Today the priority is to improve frequencies. The entire focus and all of the investment are directed in that direction. Buying carriages, adapt the lines so that they can have air conditioning. That’s what the interruptions on the B line have been about.
Will there be air conditioning on the used Madrid carriages?
Yes, of course. What do you prefer? Three used carriages or one new one? Those are carriages that on average are between 15 and 20 years old, which work perfectly. For those of us who aren’t technicians, we can’t even tell if they are used or new. Placing an order for a new subway takes two years and the others you can have in six months. Later we will go on renewing the carriages, but there is a desperate need to improve the frequency of trains. It’s the biggest purchase in the history of Buenos Aires City and close to two-thirds are new.
Are you worried that the pact with Elisa Carrió may damage the PRO as she has done with her other allies in the past?
I don’t think that it will create a problem. In addition, with the kind of link that we have had with her, we are only going to primaries and we aren’t mixing together.
Carrió has has made severe criticisms of Mauricio Macri.
Yes. She was very critical. Yes, sometimes when she speaks she is very loquacious but I think that the circumstances of the country make it necessary to overcome old differences. It’s been years since we last heard harsh criticism from her.
Both Michetti and you coincide that Macri is above this primary. However, the first to intervene in the primary was Macri. Isn’t that contradictory?
I have no doubt that the PRO emerges strengthened from this, but I also think that it is natural that each one of us expressed their opinion. As we are being transparent, it is natural. Obviously, some opinions are weigh more than others. In addition, he had an opinion about the primary which was the same as the one he had before.
Something that Kirchnerism has come under fire for is the partisan use of public media and the bias in the distribution of public advertising. When you analyze Radio de la Ciudad and the public advertising budget, the same pattern emerges.
I beg your pardon, but I don’t think that the Radio de la Ciudad is partisan. We can have different opinions. And I say this bearing in mind that I listen to almost no radios because in my daily routine I don’t have time to listen. But I have never heard the criticism that Radio de la Ciudad is biased. I have also not perceived or heard major criticism of the distribution of advertising. I don’t feel that we have been questioned for the use of public advertising. In our case, it is still the same percentage of the budget it has always been. Approximately one percent of the budget.
Is there a difference between competing against Lousteau or Recalde?
When somebody is a candidate based on management, one competes against oneself. Recalde will have to tell people what he intends to do here. In my case, in which I have been in the spotlight and had a great deal of responsibility for the administration of the City, those who agree will support and those who don’t...We did all this, and from that you can believe that I will carry out what I promise.
You mentioned the objective of improving the frequency of the subways. Can you specify two other central objectives for your administration?
One would be the Metropolitan Police in every neighbourhood of the City as a result of the unification of all of the forces that are in the City. And a third objective — equality in the quality of education and that City’s north and south. This objective is more structural and that makes it harder to put a timescale on it, but I think that it is possible and reachable. Ensuring a drastic reduction in the dropout rates in highschool. Today we have a nine percent dropout rate, I am going to try to take it to as close to zero percent as possible. Yes. There are differences between the north and the south.
You have been called out because according to the percentage of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP), the percentage spent on education has fallen.
In real terms, comparing to inflation, spending on education must have increased between 15 and 25 percent.
But in real terms, the GDP of the City grew much more...
I can’t answer in terms of GDP because we don’t measure it. One thing is national GDP. In the City it’s an infinite matter of cross-jurisdictions. I do know that in real terms the money spent increased on average about 20 percent. As a share of the budget, that’s not a valid comparison because today we have a police and a subway that we didn’t have before.
The official infant mortality indicators in the City show that they have held steady, with a slight decrease in 2014. According to those numbers, and according to the United Nations Millennium Development Goals (MDG), the richest city in the country wasn’t able to reduce infant mortality. What happened?
I didn’t know that this issue was within the MDGs. It improved a little bit. We have to keep on working. It’s difficult to study the reasons for each case. In total, there are few cases which means that any changes have a big impact on the indicator. In social matters the macroeconomic context plays a part. There are things that we will have to improve in the City. In the last few years, it improved significantly from 8.9, 8.2 to 7.7 (for every 1,000 births).
@sebalacunza; @ximenaschinca
Mauricio Macri’s Cabinet Chief Horacio Rodríguez Larreta, one of the PRO mayoral Buenos Aires City candidates, welcomed the Herald in the City government headquarters located in the neighbourhood of Barracas. During the campaign the presence of PRO activists in all of the City’s neighbourhoods has been very visible. In addition to activists, are public resources used for those booths, as opposition politicians have denounced?
First of all, the vast majority of what you can see on the streets takes place on Saturday mornings, when most people are not at work. Second, there is no kind of state authorization for the campaign, and that is the same as what you see in Buenos Aires City. You see the same from (ECO candidate Martín) Lousteau, and (Kirchnerite candidate Mariano) Recalde. It’s the traditional way that campaigning is conducted in the City.
What role will Gabriela Michetti have within the PRO if she loses the primary? Would you rule out her accepting the vice-presidency?
I think that she has already taken a decision about where she wants to run, but I imagine that she will continue to help Mauricio with the national elections. It’s more of a question for her than for me. I have no doubt that she will continue to participate with an important role.
There are issues related to public services. For example, the tow trucks that pay very little and pick up many cars in a 20-year concession. Trash collection is expensive compared to Rosario and Córdoba and is in the hands of contractors.
That’s what somebody in the opposition says (former City legislator Martín Hourest), but there is nothing that shows that trash in Buenos Aires City is more expensive.
In any case, in the big budget lines such as tow trucks, trash, subways, you have used in these eight years a system with contractors and questionable service, within the framework of Argentine standards.
We have managed the subways for two years, not eight.
Because you avoided managing them for two more years because you resisted the transfer.
No. Because we wanted the Constitution to be respected. It says that any responsibility that is transferred to sub-national government must be accompanied with the corresponding budget. But there came a moment in which the subway crisis was such with days of strikes, that we took it on and of course have filed all of the paperwork from that day onwards so that we are paid what we are owed. We haven’t given up on our demand. And even so, today we are buying carriages so that the subway works better. Obviously, you can’t buy the carriages from a dealership, you have to have them built and that takes a long time. The stations are cleaner and have clearer signage. Concerning garbage and the contractors, there was an international call for tenders and anybody could submit proposals. We are changing the garbage collection system, forty years on.
How would you grade the subway service?
Giving it a grade is difficult. Regarding the subway, it will have a frequency of less than three minutes, which is the international standards. And all of the new carriages that are necessary to meet that objective will be air conditioned.
May we point out that the promise made by Mauricio Macri in 2007 of building 11 additional kilometres of subway per year with the City’s own resources ha s not been met?
Mauricio said that we would do that assuming we had access to credit, which the national government did not allow. And today when we can have access to credit it is very expensive because of the country risk. We are now buying the carriages necessary to carry out this idea. Today we have 1.2 million passengers on the subway. During rush hour people travel uncomfortably, crammed together. And I commit to a frequency of less than three minutes. Today there are frequencies of four, five minutes but also great variability — sometimes it runs to eight minutes. I am convinced that we can get to less than three minutes.
Do you plan on extending the subway’s hours of operation to 2am or around the clock, as happens in many capitals such as New York and Madrid?
How much do tickets cost in those cities? Today the priority is to improve frequencies. The entire focus and all of the investment are directed in that direction. Buying carriages, adapt the lines so that they can have air conditioning. That’s what the interruptions on the B line have been about.
Will there be air conditioning on the used Madrid carriages?
Yes, of course. What do you prefer? Three used carriages or one new one? Those are carriages that on average are between 15 and 20 years old, which work perfectly. For those of us who aren’t technicians, we can’t even tell if they are used or new. Placing an order for a new subway takes two years and the others you can have in six months. Later we will go on renewing the carriages, but there is a desperate need to improve the frequency of trains. It’s the biggest purchase in the history of Buenos Aires City and close to two-thirds are new.
Are you worried that the pact with Elisa Carrió may damage the PRO as she has done with her other allies in the past?
I don’t think that it will create a problem. In addition, with the kind of link that we have had with her, we are only going to primaries and we aren’t mixing together.
Carrió has has made severe criticisms of Mauricio Macri.
Yes. She was very critical. Yes, sometimes when she speaks she is very loquacious but I think that the circumstances of the country make it necessary to overcome old differences. It’s been years since we last heard harsh criticism from her.
Both Michetti and you coincide that Macri is above this primary. However, the first to intervene in the primary was Macri. Isn’t that contradictory?
I have no doubt that the PRO emerges strengthened from this, but I also think that it is natural that each one of us expressed their opinion. As we are being transparent, it is natural. Obviously, some opinions are weigh more than others. In addition, he had an opinion about the primary which was the same as the one he had before.
Something that Kirchnerism has come under fire for is the partisan use of public media and the bias in the distribution of public advertising. When you analyze Radio de la Ciudad and the public advertising budget, the same pattern emerges.
I beg your pardon, but I don’t think that the Radio de la Ciudad is partisan. We can have different opinions. And I say this bearing in mind that I listen to almost no radios because in my daily routine I don’t have time to listen. But I have never heard the criticism that Radio de la Ciudad is biased. I have also not perceived or heard major criticism of the distribution of advertising. I don’t feel that we have been questioned for the use of public advertising. In our case, it is still the same percentage of the budget it has always been. Approximately one percent of the budget.
Is there a difference between competing against Lousteau or Recalde?
When somebody is a candidate based on management, one competes against oneself. Recalde will have to tell people what he intends to do here. In my case, in which I have been in the spotlight and had a great deal of responsibility for the administration of the City, those who agree will support and those who don’t...We did all this, and from that you can believe that I will carry out what I promise.
You mentioned the objective of improving the frequency of the subways. Can you specify two other central objectives for your administration?
One would be the Metropolitan Police in every neighbourhood of the City as a result of the unification of all of the forces that are in the City. And a third objective — equality in the quality of education and that City’s north and south. This objective is more structural and that makes it harder to put a timescale on it, but I think that it is possible and reachable. Ensuring a drastic reduction in the dropout rates in highschool. Today we have a nine percent dropout rate, I am going to try to take it to as close to zero percent as possible. Yes. There are differences between the north and the south.
You have been called out because according to the percentage of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP), the percentage spent on education has fallen.
In real terms, comparing to inflation, spending on education must have increased between 15 and 25 percent.
But in real terms, the GDP of the City grew much more...
I can’t answer in terms of GDP because we don’t measure it. One thing is national GDP. In the City it’s an infinite matter of cross-jurisdictions. I do know that in real terms the money spent increased on average about 20 percent. As a share of the budget, that’s not a valid comparison because today we have a police and a subway that we didn’t have before.
The official infant mortality indicators in the City show that they have held steady, with a slight decrease in 2014. According to those numbers, and according to the United Nations Millennium Development Goals (MDG), the richest city in the country wasn’t able to reduce infant mortality. What happened?
I didn’t know that this issue was within the MDGs. It improved a little bit. We have to keep on working. It’s difficult to study the reasons for each case. In total, there are few cases which means that any changes have a big impact on the indicator. In social matters the macroeconomic context plays a part. There are things that we will have to improve in the City. In the last few years, it improved significantly from 8.9, 8.2 to 7.7 (for every 1,000 births).
@sebalacunza; @ximenaschinca