Interview with Social Sciences Latin American Council (Clacso) head Pablo Gentili
By Sebastián Lacunza
Editor-in-Chief
Key political support for Brazil’s interim government has made it clear that Brasilia’s priority in foreign trade is oriented toward the major powers, with the United States in a prominent first place.
The centre-right Brazilian Social Democracy Party (PSDB) — represented in the Cabinet by the Foreign Minister José Serra among others — considers commercial ties with Argentina and the wider region as a burden on Brazil’s back.
Argentine Pablo Gentili has taught for more than 20 years at the University of Rio de Janeiro and currently serves as executive secretary for the Latin American Council of Social Sciences (CLASCO). In an interview with the Herald, he assesses the relationship between Michel Temer’s Brazil and Mauricio Macri’s Argentina.
How much does the Michel Temer government really value the speedy endorsment granted by the Mauricio Macri administration?
Despite this positive sign from Macri, I do not think that the Temer administration sees Argentina as its favourite partner in the international arena. Argentina is not even close to the interests and preferences of the group that has taken power in Brasilia. I see it as unlikely that these governments can agree on something.
The paradox is that their main friend in foreign policy is the Macri government, but their foreign trade interests are opposed. Foreign Minister José Serra — who yesterday visited Buenos Aires — disregards the Mercosur, he made that clear. Beyond any ideological issue or temporary slogan, Macri seeks to be seen as the star of the Latin American politics and many in the Brazilian political arena want to be that too. Temer will not be that by any means. He lacks charisma and represents something far older in politics. He formed a cabinet without women or black people, These are clear examples of clumsinesses that speak for themselves.
When will these economic differences come into light?
Argentina can play the role of the leader only for a while, as Brazil wallows in a political crisis. If Brazil stabilizes, Macri dreams vanish before a charismatic figure. Brazil is the ninth industrial power on the planet. Argentina represents something important in the region, but it loses comparing to Brazil. If you compete against Brazil trying to occupy a central place vis-a-vis the major powers, you will risk losing seven to zero. Brazil depends on trade with Argentina but Argentina depends much more on Brazil. Beyond these wishful thoughts and such a generosity expressed to welcome Temer, if this government continues until 2018, Macri will miss a lot Dilma Rousseff. Dilma is much more an interesting interlocutor for Macri than Temer.
Both governments say they want to expand Mercosur...
One thing is saying “the horizon of Argentina’s foreign policy needs to be expanded and should follow a multilateral approach” — which is reasonable — while Brazil is committed to regional integration, keeping a certain distance to the United States. Brazil’s Dilma (Rousseff) and (Luiz Inácio) Lula (da Silva) was aligned with regional interests. But a Brazil that becomes the main strategic partner of the United States sets another stage. In this context of crisis, São Paulo’s industrial businesses are interested in taking advantage of trade with Argentina, but the final stance will be another one. Temer’s Agriculture Minister is the largest producer of soybeans in Brazil.
Why have Macri and his PRO party so decisively welcomed the new political era in Brazil?
They were betrayed by a much greater political harmony with sectors with which PRO has always had a direct approach. “Our friends are taking office in Brazil...” PRO has found much more space for dialogue with Serra’s PSDB and they have issued very similar diagnoses regarding Néstor and Cristina (Fernández de) Kirchner and the Workers’ Party. Two centre-right political forces have made similar claims.
Do you think the Mercosur will substantially change in the immediate future?
It is assumed that there should not take place deep and stategic changes during a government in place for only 180 days, although the interim president Temer gives a message that he will rule for two years. I do not think they are going to deliver a drastic setback to the Mercosur but they will face difficulties in reaching consensus, agreements and talks that build a more lasting process of integration. There were a number of disagreements that have not strengthened Mercosur in recent years, and these are going to be larger now. Additionally they face an legacy. Even if Cristina Kirchner had rejected and had triggered a number of symbolic actions against the provisional government, the real fact is that there were many difficulties in reaching trade agreements with Dilma.
@sebalacunza